From Business Week

What's Up (or Down) at Freecycle?

Rob Hof

Check out these mostly critical comments on the Freecycle Network. That's the widely praised Tucson-based group that helps people create local Web sites where they can give away and get stuff that might otherwise end up in a landfill. Sounds like there's a fair amount of strife at the (apparently) loose-knit group. Says one commenter: "They're in the midst of a great upheaval, groups right and left are leaving them and starting independent groups of their own. The founder hasn't gotten it through his head yet, that you can't "own" this concept, and the control he tries to impose is too much for many of us who just want a grassroots movement."

This is the first I had heard of any problems at the network, which seems a pretty innovative and worthwhile endeavor. Maybe I just wasn't paying real close attention. One story outlines some philosophical differences among Freecyclers, especially over a grant to Freecycle from Waste Management, to which founder and executive director Deron Beal responded rather testily. And a Technorati search reveals some hints of strife here and there in the blogosphere. Even one defender who posted a comment seems to concede some Freecycle groups are splitting off.

UPDATE: On further research and response from "freecyclers," it appears folks are also angered by Beal's seeking a trademark on the Freecycle name and taking what some view as a heavy-handed approach to managing Freecycle discussion groups. That has caused at least some to start separate organizations. There's more back-and-forth in the Comments below and in the previous post.

I haven't yet been able to reach Beal to ask him about the fuss. I'll let you know what I hear. Meantime, any other folks in Freecycle-land care to add their two cents?

Comments

Mr. Beal has my "ersatz" compassion for his plight. Founder's syndrome can strike even the best-intentioned, well-meaning business developer.
Those of us who have left his dominion wish him well. We can no longer honorably serve him.

Many of us, troopers in his army of free volunteers, who freely gave away countless hours of our time and thousands of dollars worth of our talents and community-building skills, to build his freecycling network, did not understand that our commander-in-chief, the visionary Mr. Beal, seems to have had a different concept of the definition of grassroots. We were quickly becoming weeds and apparently becoming a nuisance.
So he began "weeding" us owner/moderators out. His ersatz friendship with some of us was coming quickly to an end.

When he called us to "round up," we could hardly have suspected that it was the industrial-strength, commercial-grade trademarked product which would be applied to us owner/moderators, the leaders of his "grassroots" enterprise. The communities we had built with the sweat of brow would be soon be considered the trademarked property of Mr. Beal and his newly incorporated Freecycle Network. Our local efforts were gifts to be given over to him in homage for his visionary concept. Such lavish tribute was, it seems, according to all the positive press our communities brought him, his due.

However...
E-cycling is a global movement driven by local leaders whose efforts to reduce waste, exchange surplus wealth and keep things out of the waste stream shall continue to be driven by the grass roots. We, be we nuisance weeds or not, shall persist to successfully: Reduce our waste; re-use each others surplus wealth through the mutual exchange of our communities' local resources;
and recycle freely in our online communities; and we shall do so with local sovereignty, with or without the Freecycle Network.

Although we are a bit worse for wear, those of us who are willing are stepping forth to stay the course and to continue e-cycling with a new resolve.

I wish each of us engaged in this endeavor the best, freecycle or not.

Posted by: Katherine at September 1, 2005 05:45 AM

Many of the groups leaving FreeCycle are showing up in the directory at FreeSharing.org. Over 110 new groups have been added to the directory in the past 2 weeks.
I'll allow others to explain the reasons for the mass defections as I wiped my hands clean of the FreeCycle network back in February when they took a $130,000 grant from Waste Management Inc.

Eric Burke
http://FreeSharing.org

Posted by: Eric Burke at September 1, 2005 06:10 AM

I find it ridiculous that Deron Beal makes it so difficult for people to give things away and how it is that so many people are affected by his greed. The FreeCycle concept is great, but once greed enters the picture the concept takes a back seat.

He has far too much concern for the trademark and getting a non-profit status so he can “quit his day job.” That is his concern, not saving the planet.

Posted by: Paul Hurteau at September 1, 2005 07:50 AM

How big will this story grow?

As big as the Media wants to play it out into one of the largest tragedies we've all ever seen.

And that, is the saddest part of the situation.

Portions of this article that point to blogs from both sides of the fence are very interesting, to say the least. Let's examine the 'negative' one:

This person's totally irate because he was put on moderation. It's a great odds-on favorite bet that this person couldn't follow simple guidelines set in place by that particular Freecycle Group on a repeated basis and had to be set that way. Blogs are wonderful, but sadly they don't afford any replies from those they choose to slam - unless the blogger gives it to them. I'd bet a simple investigation would turn up the fact that the situation was justified.

Note that it's very possible it was a mistake, this has happened in other Groups in the past where someone who runs them goes overboard in their handling of their membership. But with little explanation from the blogger of what he thinks he did that got him in that position, my money goes on self-infliction.

Next we have the other blog thread, which shows the much larger problems that exist. Those who leave or oppose the current Freecycle setups, most of whom either ride the panic wave set in motion by disgruntled Owners/Moderators with personal agendas or vendettas or who have left or been asked to leave because of actions they've taken on their own, don't ask their membership what THEY would like to see happen.

In many cases most of these Members, the people the Owners/Moderators of the Freecycle Network need to realize are the folks who make their Groups work, have no clue what's being done. And if they knew, at least a percentage would switch back if they were provided information.

Recently there have been giant 'Administrative' posts by the operators of Freecycle Groups, some of these turned into actual polls of their membership. If you were able to read one of these large 'statements' and had little or no clue of the story from either side behind them - you'd be happy to agree to moving that Group away from TFN.

Why? Simple. Read the long post and you'll be entertained by a massive anti-freecycle explanation wrapped up in a question about making a change. If I read one of those and had little other information to make an informed decision, I would raise no objection as they strip down any facts or figures into making the Freecycle Network and its current leader look so bad you wouldn't want any part of them.

Again, this is sad in the fact these 'explanations' provided to the people who make Freecycle or any other recycling group flow are about as biased as you could imagine. Top that off with the fact a percentage of those providing the explanation have done something to cause their departure from TFN, they convieniently leave that information out. And then as other Owner/Moderators see these explanations fly around and read posts from these sources, they believe them as fact and perpetuate the problem further.

There is a sect out there just hell-bent on seeing the absolute destruction of Freecycle in any form and they continue to post instructions on how to get yourself kicked out of the Freecycle Network, how to hack and trash anything related to TFN and pump out continual misinformation and outright lies in order to get more TFN Owner/Mods to 'bail out'.

Recently, this sect went wild when one person reported a mass-unsubscription of Members from their group and immediately pointed the finger at Freecycle for doing this. One more of the fearmongers 'confirmed' this to be a true story and the fur flew. A day later it was discovered that in most cases it was their own Moderators 'cleaning house' of inactive Members and just didn't inform the person in charge it had been done. Not a single apology for the accusations has ever been made, don't expect to see one either.

During this 'incident' the fuel for a staged bail-out of several large TFN Groups occurred and used that situation as an excuse to leave without real notice or accurate explanations to their membership. At no point since then has anyone from those Groups who departed provided any proof that this had actually happened to them, nor proof of the source of the problem.

So this story will undoubtedly continue and feed the Media's need to report it as it's the prime material for getting a reader's attention. And we'll rarely hear the other side of the story, simply because 'if it bleeds, it leads'.

Posted by: Dave at September 1, 2005 09:37 AM

Mr. Hof,

This comment in your story hits it right on the nose:
Says one commenter: "They're in the midst of a great upheaval, groups right and left are leaving them and starting independent groups of their own. The founder hasn't gotten it through his head yet, that you can't "own" this concept, and the control he tries to impose is too much for many of us who just want a grassroots movement."

Here is a copy of what most are sending out to their groups to let them know why we are leaving the Freecycle Network and how we've all basically been had by someone only out to make a buck off of the members backs, while the rest of us are working our butts off as volunteers.

Greetings!
Effective immediately, we are no longer affiliated with the Freecycle Network, Inc.

This has come to pass for many reasons, some of which are below. Obviously, there is a great deal of sadness associated with this change due to lost opportunities. However, as one chapter closes another opens and we believe there will be new opportunities that simply never were
realized by Freecycle.org or the Freecycle Network Inc.

What the change will mean to members?
Essentially, nothing. The lists will continue as before, a place to offer or seek items that no longer need be consigned to our bulging landfills. Everything will continue to be free; no commercial announcements will be welcome.

What the change will mean to prospective members
For a time, it may be harder to find us. We anticipate this will be a temporary phenomenon, since we will be embarking upon a rather aggressive public relations campaign with the
help of each of our members!

Why was this change necessary?
To understand how this came about, a little history is in order.
The original Freecycle list was originated in May, 2003 in Tucson, Arizona. A local non-profit organization called Rise Inc. began to offer a service designed for businesses to get rid of surplus items by giving them to others rather than
discarding them. Fairly quickly, this was opened up to individuals as well as businesses. Others heard about this in other places, and started Freecycle lists of their own.

The idea soon attracted hundreds and ultimately thousands of others around the world but not without its problems. Such fast growth was very difficult to stay on top of, and it took many dedicated, experienced, and energetic volunteers
to build. However, the organization in Tucson quickly reached the level of its managerial competence but has resisted all attempts to make it more reflective of the members everywhere. For one thing, the original Rise Inc. staffer involved Mr. Deron Beal establishing a nonprofit
Arizona corporation to serve as the parent organization for the entire network. The Board of Directors consists of Deron, his wife, and a close family friend. List moderators and list owners elsewhere simply need not apply, nor have
there been serious efforts to attract outside Directors.

Originally, the agreement was that volunteer leaders from all lists were to make major decisions through polls and votes. Very few were held, and most of these were imposed upon the group by Mr. Beal without entertaining discussion
or additional input. Until recently, it had been about a year since the last such poll.

Meanwhile, a substantial cash grant was sought and secured from Waste Management, Inc., over the objections of many people involved in Freecycle around the world. That company may today be trying to reform, but a cursory examination of
its history indicates it has a rather unfavorable ecological record at best.

However, the desire to provide Mr. Beal an income overrode any serious discussion on the matter, and the grant was accepted without any examination of whether other alternatives existed. Thus,two-thirds of the Freecycle Board of Directors sets their own family income from a grant that was unwanted by a large group of Freecycle local leaders, with no review by
disinterested Directors possible under the current status. Furthermore, the corporation has never posted its Articles of Incorporation or Bylaws, let alone meeting minutes further
complicating issues of transparency that should be so important for a volunteer organization. Keep in mind, please, that Mr. Beal remains the only salaried employee of The Freecycle Network Inc. Several organization groups or committees have been created, such as the Group Outreach
Adminsitrators or GOAs. These individuals serve as trouble shooters where there are problems with local groups.
Relatively quickly after this designation was created by Mr. Beal, that became the primary focus of interaction rather than the larger group of local list administrators. However, this group also became somewhat disenchanted with the status
and complaints of the lack of transparency and the lack of input from the local level has resulted in the imposition of yet another group, called by Mr. Beal the Hub. This group consists of hand-picked leaders of the various activities
within Freecycle. Meanwhile, many of the most experienced organization leaders have either left Freecycle entirely, curtailed their activities beyond their local list, or have been shoved out because they have dared to suggest that change was in order.

Meanwhile, a number of groups have already left Freecycle, and still more are in the process of doing so. There has simply been a loss of credibility of sufficient magnitude regarding Mr. Beal that it now appears to be irreversible.

Thus, with sadness, we have concluded that this step is necessary if we are to continue to be responsive to local needs and, perhaps, to become a more meaningful voice in the communities we serve.

What about your membership?
If you want to stay members of the existing lists, you may do that by doing nothing. The name will change, but that is all. If, however, you want to become members of affiliated Freecycle lists, we feel relatively sure that replacements
will be created within the week as seen from previous history.
If they follow the pattern established over the past few months,there will be no local list owners for these new groups, although they will attempt to get local individuals involved
to moderate them. However, when these lists are established, we wish them well and have no animosity toward them or to those who wish to join them.

The fundamental principles involved in the local lists we agree with. We believe, however, that a supremely important aspect of the movement lies with keeping its direction as close to the individual members as possible. We believe that
no centrally-directed decision making that does not allow for ideas and needs to be expressed from the individual list and list member upward is in the ultimate interest of our
communities.

We have waited and watched the tremendous ferment going on throughout the Freecycle network. With all the uproar, we had hoped that a new course would be taken. Unfortunately, no such thing has resulted. Our conclusion has been that the
demands upon Mr. Beal have simply far exceeded his
experience and his present state of knowledge, and that he appears unwilling to learn.

Therefore, we will stop being involved in the drama, but will take this step to disaffiliate and focus our energies and our attention where it belongs upon the needs of our members and our communities.

If you have any further questions you may contact me directly.

Sincerely,
***********************

When I joined freecycle and created my group it was the greatest thing going. There were no major rules and regulations handed down by Freecycle other than to keep it legal and keep it free. Then as time passed, more and more regulations were being handed down on how to run the group. Most were ignored by me as I've run groups on Yahoo for many many years and never had a problem. There was one rule that I did take into effect and that was to have a second owner/moderator incase something happened, so I promoted to owner someone I trust to not hurt the group. All was fine, then I start getting e-mails from Deron and just recently one of his flunkies telling me that I had (HAD) to make Deron a full owner of my group otherwise I would be in danger of my group suddenly disappearing, which has happened as they seem to have an in at Yahoo to get groups deleted if they are not following Deron's rules, using the violation of trademark spiel. Thing is, there isn't a valid trademark yet.

Here are some of the links where previous freecycle groups are now being listed:
www.freesharing.org
www.recyclecentral.org
http://groups.msn.com/T-R-U-E
http://www.sharingisgiving.org/
www.freeXchange.org
www.FreeCycleAmerica.org

As you can see this is not some fly by night movement away from Freecycle. I know you will be hearing from Deron and his Bealites as they will be putting quite a spin on what's going on, almost to the point of making you believe that there has only been a loss of one or two groups. Unfortunately, you really can't tell by looking at his webpage freecycle.org because as one group leaves he creates a replacement within days. The member count, well, the count is completely off as I know for myself, I'm counted at least 7 times, as all they do is include the count of the group, not taking into account that most are members of more than one group. I see this on a daily basis when I see the same post 3, 4 sometimes 5 times in my inbox as they've posted the same message to each group.

I can go on and on, but I think you've gotten the drift of things.

Thank you

Posted by: IS at September 1, 2005 12:04 PM

I live in Massachusetts. I was dismissed from the Arizona FC Network because I refused to have someone I did not know from Arizona as a co-owner. I had someone in my community as a co-owner and was comfortable with that. Deron Beal was not, so I got the ax. Why would I want some corporation running my community from Arizona? It is as per FCN rules locally owned and operated.

Posted by: Paul Hurteau at September 1, 2005 12:04 PM

None of the free recycling groups would be here had it not been for Freecycle. Freesharing feeds Freeshare by creating fear in Freecycle moderators and members. This fear technique opens the door for Freesharing and other such groups to harvest members from Freecycle and all in the name of fear. To Freeshare and other such groups, it is not about the members but the NUMBERS. This is all about power and nothing more for those who are working to bring Freecycle down.

Posted by: Bob at September 1, 2005 12:07 PM

Freecycle started and grew as an open grassroots movement. Freecyclers everywhere flocked to the idea of freecycling to help out their neighbors and themselves. The term freecycle came to be known as "to recycle by giving something to another for free". Lots of people had lots of stuff (still do) they they don't need that is taking up room. It is convenient and easy to freecycle such stuff -- easier then selling it (time is money).

Then The Freecycle Network changed into one that attempted to go a more (non-profit) corporate route that wanted more control with trademark claims, trademark enforcement, money, a single user ID that could be used to "own" every group in The Freecycle Network. This extra control took significant extra resources. These resources partly came from Waste Management in the form of money and even more so from a brave band of noble volunteers that tried to coordinate all of this. But all of this was too much work and most of those volunteers got burned out. Plus the feedback/change control mechanisms were not sufficient to fix problems that were arising. So most of the top volunteers within The Freecycle Network flamed out -- they realized that what they were helping build had corrupted itself. Various power trips had gotten out of control. Folks wanted more of a voice in the process.

The very nature of freecycling encourages activists who want things to be as free as possible. The control aspect does not sit well with them. Plus freecycling is an easy thing to do that you can do just about anywhere and not need The Freecycle Network to accomplish. Anyone can set up a freecycle group and freecycle groups themselves are a piece of cake to run. That's why so many have popped up so quickly.

Thus the explosion and now dispersion of lots of top central volunteers within The Freecycle Network.

Freecycling is still a great thing to do and will undoubtedly continue -- hopefully forever. It is rare when a new popular term such as "freecycle" is coined. Freecycling still best describes what is now returning to be an open movement with freesharing.org, freecycleamerica.org, and many others in many areas of the internet. Enjoy!

Posted by: Tim at September 1, 2005 12:23 PM

I am one of the "defected" moderators. I did not poll my group members to see if they would like to switch. I created a new group and invited my members to the new group, the same work, less politics. Those that wished to leave with me did and the ones that didn't, didn't.
One of the Rules of freecycle is everything must be free, well for some reason that still has yet to be explained to me. Mr. Deron Beal decided to take a BIG check from Waste Management for sponsorship. Of course reasons were tried to be explained, like a new improved website, lawyers,yadda yadda yadda. We all know how cheap you can buy a domain name for, and how cheap it is to to maintain it. Oh not to mention that he needed a paycheck. But he is in a sense making $ off the members that give things, their things away to their neighbors for free. While I sit by and settle arguments, offer advice to other moderators, promote freecycle, manage 2 groups of members, approve posts, and memberships, not to mention a few things I'm sure I've left out. He makes a paycheck. I make nothing. No, I'm not upset that I make nothing, just as not upset that anyone should be that I took my group and left. I made it freely and volunteered my time and energy. I have decided to not do it for Deron Beal anymore. MY group MY choice.

Posted by: Jennifer at September 1, 2005 12:23 PM

Any wildly successful concept is going to have its detractors. No surprise seeing Paul Hurteau and some of these other trolls posting here.

These folks are a small, highly vocal, jealous bunch who were excluded from Freecycle after they were unable to follow the most basic rules.

What's amazing is how munch energy they spend in tearing something down instead of building something new.

What's also amazing is the lack of facts and vast quantity of rumors and outright lies circulating by those who were unable to get Deron to do what they wanted him to do.

Reading their rants, is it no wonder they were excluded. Freecycle is merely trying to protect its name and the quality of the service to its members from these unscrupulous profiteers. Freecycle is the *only* group registered as a non-profit and with a pending 501(c)3 before the IRS.

Anybody who has done any non-profit work will quickly recognize that the $100,000 grant Freecycle received from WM was paltry and is badly needed at this point in Freecycle's growth. WM gave it with no strings attached and no tax deductions for itself.

A small minority of Freecycle volunteers have left their central volunteer positions when it became clear they would not get paid for their work anytime soon, nor would they be promoted to a small, central decision-making forum. It's too bad their pride got in the way of their helping such a great massive paradigm shift in our economy. Now they have formed their own for-profit (not non-profit) organizations in hopes of capturing some moolah and power for themselves.

Too bad for the members of the groups who thought they were members of Freecycle groups and now find themselves hijacked into being members of something entirely different without any choice on their part, just a unilateral misappropriation of their membership by their moderator.

Posted by: Paul at September 1, 2005 02:24 PM

Quote: "Freecycle is merely trying to protect its name and the quality of the service to its members from these unscrupulous profiteers. Freecycle is the *only* group registered as a non-profit and with a pending 501(c)3 before the IRS."

Freecycle is the only group making money off the back of volunteers.

It is ONLY registered as a non-profit in Arizona.

And as far as "Quality of Service", well the lies told by Deron Beal speak volumes about that. None of the other groups fear constructive suggestions.

"Pending" does not mean approved and it should not be assumed that it will be approved based on what I have seen in the FCN.

For full details about www.FreeCycleAmerica.org funding, please visit:

http://www.freecycleamerica.org/funds.htm

I have asked time and time again to see the financial statements from FCN and have not heard anything.

FCN is late in filing its financial statement with Arizona according to the Arizona Government web site.

To call people who only want the truth "TROLLS" is like calling Deron Beal an honest man.

Paul Hurteau
70 Quaker Street
PO Box 528
Millville, MA 01529

www.FreeCycleAmerica.org

Posted by: Paul Hurteau at September 1, 2005 03:31 PM

I am one of the first to defect from fc back in Feb. I at that time started Sharingisgiving.org. I was one of those that worked for many hours a week for the grassroots movement. As I saw things starting to change and addressed it I was badmouthed by Mr. Beal as filled with negativity! Sure when you donate tons of hours a week for a cause you believe in and see it turning into a Monster (the exact word I used with Mr. Beal) you start opening your eyes.
The minute, FC took Corporate money from one of the largest polluters in the USA, maybe the world, without talking to any of the owners of the thousands of groups, it was time to leave. It was no longer about grassroots, but about money and power.
I tried to work with Mr. Beal but was treated like the garbage that WWI hauls away. Just as anyone else in ownership or management positions, high or low, were.
Anyone in the help group “The Modsquad” that said anything about what was going on that did not agree with FC was put on moderation and then removed, by the dozens! Of course this will be denied, and done quietly!
Then as the top folks in FC started to see what I saw months ago and got tired of doing Mr. Beal’s bad deeds, and started leaving themselves and others were fired because of support of those leaving, the doors opened, wide!
The lies started to be exposed and folks started to see the new fc, the "work for me for free so I can take a nice salary from WWI" fc. Groups started leaving, some on their own and some to those that had the foresight to leave months ago.
As time moved on I saw shoot off group after shoot off group start up. This is what happens when folks are treated unfairly and want to continue to serve their community.
I like many of the other groups have seen enrollment grow greatly in the last couple of weeks. What is sad is that many have been ruined by the lies and treatment by fc that they just want to start their own group “Mom and Pop Recycle" and are afraid to join one of the larger groups as those mentioned previously. So Sad.
FC has had Yahoo shut down groups by the hundreds! Take away ID's so folks lose all of there saved emails and groups under that ID. It is done unfairly and without warning. I know this is fact because it has happened to me, FOR NO REASON other than using the word “freecycle"! Fc does not own the TM on the word! I have written letters to corporate Yahoo founders, via snail mail. I have done this twice with no response at all. So one has to ask, what person does fc have in Yahoo doing their dirty work? When it is brought to corporate attention in writing with documented proof by more than just me and it continues to happen, it has to make you wonder. Is it all about the money at Yahoo also?
Do they like fc's inflated numbers, so bang the little guys? Fc's numbers are so inflated it isn't even funny, it is sickening. You have folks that belong to 3-6 groups, some under multiple ID's and each one is counted as a member. Does Yahoo not see that fc's numbers are so ridiculously inflated it is hilarious. The funniest part of all is fc is using WWI to move fc out of yahoo and onto it’s own server! How do you like them now Yahoo? Continue to remove the groups that plan on staying with you and support the ones that plan to take thousands, NOT millions as claimed by fc away from you. Good corporate decision.
Now that I speak up about the treatment of Yahoo to the little guys there may be no more SiG! Who knows? If it does happen I will be sure to post it here!
I am a low key person that started SiG and am paying for it out of pocket because I believe in the concept and the people that do also. I do not go looking for fc groups, or use scare tactics, I let word of mouth let folks find SiG and if they want to join the SiG Network, great if the want to be listed as "Mom and Pop Recycle" they are welcome to have your group listed.
In closing, fc started a good thing, but money, lies and greed got in the way. That will ruin any good thing. Some of the real insiders, the previous GOA’s if willing, can really shed some bright light on the inner workings of fc. I hope they have the courage to do so. Then the world will know the truth, not what comes from fc drones that are still under Mr. Beal’s disillusionment. Come on folks, open your eyes as the others have and get real and see what is really happening with fc.
Thank you for running this story and giving us the opportunity to comment on it.
PK

Posted by: PK at September 1, 2005 03:34 PM

I am a bit miffed at reading the comment suggesting I left because of any other offshoot group posting negative comments. That is so far from the truth that your ignorance upsets me!

I left on my own because of the deception and the dirtiness I experienced FIRSTHAND!

When I wrote to Mr. Beal about my concerns with what was going on and why I left the NGA position, I got the royal brush-off. Next the State GOA tried to join my group. I did allow that, but because Mr. Beal would not reply to my questions I demoted Mr. Beal to mod status with no privileges. Thank goodness for that, or Mr. Beal would have next instructed the GOA to remove me from my own group!

I then asked my members what they wanted to do. THEY opted for the name change. Our group was removed from the FC Network before the name change. When a group was set up to replace ours, I looked to see the start date. It was 3 weeks prior to there being any issues with me, the NGA position, or my group that I was aware of. Of course I was assured by the GOA that they have these spare groups just lying around just in case they need them. No, I don’t believe that lie either…

Since then, we have moved off Yahoo to our own forum. We have chosen to be affiliated with Sharing is Giving. www.Sharingisgiving.org This organization does NOT try to control our members or owners. The founder is supportive and allows us to do our own thing in our own way. He answers questions that are asked in a timely manor and has one set of rules for all SIG owners – that everything stay FREE. This is how it should be. Maybe Mr. Beal should ask for some lessons from the founder of SharingisGiving?

Nora Child
San Antonio Neighborhood Recycle – Sharing is Giving
Texas

Posted by: Nora Child at September 1, 2005 03:39 PM

The previous poster Paul (not Paul Hurteau) seems to forget that Freecycle is only a non-profit in the State of Arizona and not the rest of the country. Deron's application hasn't been approved by the IRS, just as his trademark application hasn't been approved either.

Also I would like to say, that my group and I are still in the Freecycle Network, so I'm not a troll and not dishing out lies and mis-truths. I'm just saying that I don't like what Deron is doing which is going to bring Freecycle down to its knees and he's doing it all in the name of a paycheck.

He has lost site of the original goal when this was started and when I became a member.

Thank you

Posted by: is at September 1, 2005 03:56 PM

A few thoughts:

First who I am: I am a Former Freecycle group owner who has now left the Network as of 8/22/05.

I opened our group in May 2004. I became involved in The Back office work, around July of 2004. My first job for Freecycle was as the Database Administrator. I worked along with GOAs, the Group Outreach Assistants. Some of the work I did was to remove groups who were not in compliance per GOA order.

Non compliance could be:
Failure to add Ersatz Friend as co owner.
Doing things that did not go along with Freecycle guidelines.

Use of the Logo after you had been declared a
rogue. A rogue was originally a group that did not get Freecycle sanction to open. It became the term for any group who used the name, or the logo.

If you were removed for failure to do what you were asked/ordered by a GOA, your link was subject to removal from the Freecycle.org website.

If you were removed, and you did not do what you were asked within a certain time period, you were then replaced by a 'Parallel' group, of which Ersatz Friend aka Deron, was the only owner.

After this happened, you would then receive a Cease and Desist email. I sent those, in fact I wrote the first ones used. I personally sent out
290 of those to groups who were labelled rogue.

At a point in time, Freecycle gained access to Yahoo, in other words, Yahoo was asked and agreed to delete groups whom we had sent these notices to.

And Yahoo did follow through. On one day at the beginning of Freecycle's success, about 60 groups were deleted in one day. My last knowledge is of a day where 300 plus more were summarily deleted.

My second job was as part of a three-person fund rising team, our purpose to gather information and leads to garner more money, grants, funds for Freecycle.

My third job was as the New Group Approver for the State of Florida. I was nominated and elected by my Florida Mod peers for that one. I also stepped in to assist with the State of Idaho in this same position.

Those of us who did the back-office stuff, like the GOAs, NGAs, etc and have since exited Stage Left, are now able to tell each other things that we were under advisement/order not to share with the others.

Example: What the GOA does, they do not tell the NGA of. And now that I know more, much more than I ever wanted to know, I am glad of that
advisement. Had I known these things earlier, my tenure with Freecycle would have been much shorter.

Why did everyone leave that left?

Because we could no longer trust in the direction we were being led from the top. Because as the things they were asked to either do, participate in, or operate in full knowledge of; became ugly and tainted.

This departure you are seeing is not a case or taking our toys and going home. It's simply a gradual realization that we no longer could
be a part of the behind-the-scenes plans and schemes.

When trust goes, respect quickly follows in its footsteps. When respect and trust are gone, fear comes in. When fear comes in, you have two choices: Stay and ignore your little voice, that by now is screaming at you. Or leave, keep your integrity, and your dignity.

The more you know, the harder it becomes to stay. For group owners and mods, it can be easier, especially if you do not pay mind to what goes
on.

My departure was not a kneejerk reaction in any way. I made myself wait, I made myself hang on, to see if I saw a turn of the tide.

When it became apparenent that it was not forthcoming and that those who asked questions were now on the 'Bad List' I began my prep to leave.

When I demoted EF, which was about the same time I saw the Chat of the GOAs in the plan to remove Deanna, that gave me good reason to realize
my list could be compromised. I am not saying it WAS compromised, but I took that ability away for it to be downloaded, or for me to be removed. No sense being caught with my pants down.

What really, really made my decision to finally leave was when after removing EF from my groups, the EF person, whoever was in control of
it on that particular day, CAME BACK onto the Titusville list.

I had already removed him/it/her whatever that personna is. Yet days later, I get a notification of a New Member. And it's none other than
EF. I certainly did not invite him/it/her.

Now my question, which still remains unanswered and puzzles me, perhaps someone here can help, or give a thought on.

WHY did EF come back to the Titusville group?
What was the purpose of that move?

Was it hoped that I had a Co Owner who could be asked to re promote Him/It/Her ? And thus regain control of the group?

Unfortunately, if that were the case, and the plan; my co owners were not the type that would have done that, as we had spoken of this move for weeks, and I had already been urged months ago to leave the Network by my most trusted and revered Co-owner on the groups.

I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on why the EF persona came back to Titusville.

Here I have included the screen shot of my moderator log from the Titusville Freecycle group.

It was still a Freecycle group at this time.

http://freespaces.com/glennhess/EFscreenshot.html

It clearly shows:

Date I added him as Co Owner
Date I removed him as Co Owner
Date he returned to the list
Date I banned him.

I also know of a large group in North Florida where a green light had been given to remove the owner at any time the GOA felt it prudent.

Whether this green light is still in effect right now, since the GOA has left, is unknown but I was given this info from the 'horses' mouth.

Hope this finds all well, and regardless of your affiliation, either still within Freeccyle or having left, I consider all still my friends
and still have the same respect for you I always did.

Char
Melbourne, Cocoa, Cocoa Beach and Titusville groups

Brevard County Florida

Now back to a grassroots group, with Local moderators and owners.

Posted by: Charlotte Hess at September 1, 2005 06:39 PM

Very simply - I think it's really sad when someone's ego sets control issues in motion and gets in the way of doing something good and worthwhile. But... there is no monopoly on giving things away and helping others. So to the "boss" - keep the ego, keep the control factor - "freecycling" goes on.....without you.

Posted by: Patricia at September 1, 2005 06:51 PM

Welcome to the 'spin zone'!!!

'Only non-profit making money off the work of its volunteers'?? Who thought that bad spin up?

Freecycle as an Arizona non-profit Corporation with a pending 501c3 IRS certification has 'employees'. Ya know, those people who work for a living and get paid for that work.

Let's see. So that means if this isn't 'right' in some folks' eyes, especially those who had their hands out as well no matter how hard they try to deny it, then we have to kill a few other organizations too!

American Red Cross - paid employees with volunteer staff. Hell with New Orleans - they're money-grubbing pigs at the top and it's time to go.

United Way - paid employees with volunteer staff. No more giving at the office with some of your paycheck! Rotten communists, kill them all.

Goodwill - oh, forget it. Screw the whole lot of those self-centered bastards! Why should they get free stuff and resell it in those stores? And actually pay a few people here and there to operate the stores, like a manager to ensure it all doesn't walk off? The hypocrites!

How many more, especially smaller organizations with staff setups like Freecycle, do we need to go hunt down and eradicate? My God, it could take years to hunt them all down!

This 'opposing force' can't get out of its own way with infighting, insults and squabbling. They do the same tricks in the name of 'freedom and grassroots' that they cry foul claiming someone connected to Freecycle did nasty things to them. They have no direction or goals, other than to see what they think they should own being completely destroyed.

We can all post here until poor Rob Hof's head explodes but it's still going to come out the same way. Freecycle - love it or leave it. And if you leave - turn out the light, shut the door, shut your mouth and make a real difference by showing us something more productive?

And those who've left, unless you only have a personal agenda to destroy, why not move on to your 'freedom'? Guess it's more entertaining to keep going back and trashing what it is you think you've created.

Posted by: Let's Get Real at September 1, 2005 06:58 PM

The Freecycle problem is very simple. A lack of communication, a need for control, and a inability to be truthful and honest is causing these problems. Everything listed above are symptoms and not the cause. They are fixable, but the damaged cause has led to the loss of very good people willing to give much of themselves and their time to this vision.

Only the people in charge of Freecycle have the ability to make things better.

Posted by: Larry at September 1, 2005 07:00 PM

A few thoughts:

First who I am: I am a Former Freecycle group owner who has now left the Network as of 8/22/05.

Non compliance could be:
Failure to add Ersatz Friend as co owner.
Doing things that did not go along with Freecycle guidelines.

Use of the Logo after you had been declared a
rogue. A rogue was originally a group that did not get Freecycle sanction to open. It became the term for any group who used the name, or the logo.

If you were removed for failure to do what you were asked/ordered by a GOA, your link was subject to removal from the Freecycle.org website.

If you were removed, and you did not do what you were asked within a certain time period, you were then replaced by a 'Parallel' group, of which Ersatz Friend aka Deron, was the only owner.

After this happened, you would then receive a Cease and Desist email. I sent those, in fact I wrote the first ones used. I personally sent out
290 of those to groups who were labelled rogue.

At a point in time, Freecycle gained access to Yahoo, in other words, Yahoo was asked and agreed to delete groups who we had sent these notices to.

And Yahoo did follow through. On one day at the beginning of Freecycle's success, about 60 groups were deleted in one day. My last knowledge is of a day where 300 plus more were summarily deleted.

My second job was as part of a 3 person Fund Raising team, our purpose to gather information and leads to garner more money, grants, funds for Freecycle.

My third job, was as the New Group Approver for the State of Florida. I was nominated and elected by my Florida Mod peers for that one. I also stepped in to assist with the State of Idaho in this same position.

Those of us who did the back office stuff, like the GOAs, NGAs, etc and have since exited Stage Left, are now able to tell each other things that we were under advisement/order not to share with the others.

Why did everyone leave that left?

This departure you are seeing is not a case or taking our toys and going home. It's simply a gradual realization that we no longer could
be a part of the behind the scenes plans and schemes.

When trust goes, respect quickly follows in it's footsteps. When respect and trust are gone, fear comes in. When fear comes in, you have two choices: Stay and ignore your little voice, that by now is screaming at you. Or leave, keep your integrity, and your dignity.

The more you know, the harder it becomes to stay. For group owners and mods, it can be easier, especially if you do not pay mind to what goes
on.

My departure was not a knee jerk reaction in any way. I made myself wait, I made myself hang on, to see if I saw a turn of the tide.

When it became apparenent that it was not forthcoming and that those who asked questions were now on the 'Bad List' I began my prep to leave.

What really, really made my decision to finally leave was when after removing EF from my groups, the EF person, whoever was in control of
it on that particular day; CAME BACK onto the Titusville list.

I had already removed him/it/her whatever that personna is. Yet days later, I get a notification of a New Member. And it's none other than
EF. I certainly did not invite him/it/her.

Now my question, which still remains unanswered and puzzles me, perhaps someone here can help, or give a thought on.

WHY did EF come back to the Titusville group?
What was the purpose of that move?

Was it hoped that I had a Co Owner who could be asked to re promote Him/It/Her ? And thus regain control of the group?

I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on why the EF personna came back to Titusville.

Here I have included the screen shot of my moderator log from the Titusville Freecycle group.

It was still a Freecycle group at this time.

http://freespaces.com/glennhess/EFscreenshot.html

It clearly shows:

Date I added him as Co Owner
Date I removed him as Co Owner
Date he returned to the list
Date I banned him.

I also know of a large group in North Florida where a green light had been given to remove the owner at any time the GOA felt it prudent.

Whether this green light is still in effect right now, since the GOA has left, is unknown but I was given this info from the 'horses' mouth.

Hope this finds all well, and regardless of your affiliation, either still within Freeccyle or having left, I consider all still my friends
and still have the same respect for you I always did.

Char
Melbourne, Cocoa, Cocoa Beach and Titusville groups

Brevard County Florida

Now back to a grassroots group, with Local moderators and owners.

Posted by: Charlotte Hess at September 1, 2005 07:32 PM

I joined "Freecycle" in May of 2004 long before the EF requirement. EF was never added to my group
nor was it ever mentioned I had to have him
I (as I understand) was the first Texas Group
to vacate "Freecycle" right after Nancy Castleman
left her "mother hen" position and a long chat with Deron that I had on Yahoo Messenger where Deron again lied to me like he had several times
previously.

I now believe the WMI grant has gone to his head.

Deron is ALL ABOUT MONEY, not the movement's main
principles.

Freecycle HAS gotten away from its own structure

Freecycle HAS all but become just the opposite of the concept of "Free"

I only left after I was offered several times
positions in FreeCycle (GOA and NGA positions)
that NEVER happened
I was also invited by Deron to be a Mod in the "modsquad" the day I joined the network
it never happened either.

James

Posted by: James Bond at September 2, 2005 01:29 AM

Those owners that have a beef with Mr. Beal, how can they feel that allows them to take their group and move them WITHOUT asking them first? It's their problem that has now been made the problem of an entire group of people anywhere from 100-13000+, like it or not How does that make them any better than the man they are complaining about? Those that made a new site and invited the members to it, leaving the original site intact, are the only ones that can feel good about their actions. Those that changed the name of their group, removed the Freecycle logo and did not ASK their members how they felt about it are just plain WRONG. The members were told half truths and other falsehoods much like those the moderators claim Mr. Beal had told them. Now you have a group of members that do not know what to do or where to turn because their original group has disappeared and they have no choice but to believe the owner of the group who felt just in their actions. They tell of a man whose power has gone to his head, it has blinded him. He has some corporate syndrome thing that makes him act this way. But if you look at their actions, are they not just as blinded as they claim him to be? Are their actions all that different? Isn't it another case of the top people controlling the mass per se? Mr. Beal has finally made it so he is making a wage from his hard work, are we sure this is all about him losing his vision and not a bit of: Where's my piece of the pie? Remember there are always two sides to every story. Before any judgments are made, it should be the entire story, not just bits and pieces here and there that that an opinion is drawn from. This is just one person's observation. One that has heard from some of those members that woke one morning to find "they were not in Kansas anymore Toto," and home was nowhere to be found!

Posted by: Some think but how can that be right? at September 2, 2005 04:04 AM

It is TRULY AMAZING that the people defending FCN are not willing to publish their names and are calling those that have commented on FCN stating that there is corruption and lying by Deron and his crew "trolls."

The fact is that we are moving on, but having our eyes opened have chosen to warn others that FCN is not interested in keeping things out of the landfill's, RATHER, trying to TM an idea that would have raised as much anger during the '60s and '70s had someone tried to trademark the word "Peace" or the symbol.

I PROUDLY stand beside those who expose the fakes and the greed that FCN has become.

Anyone who hides their identity must not be truly committed to their cause.

Paul Hurteau
70 Quaker Street
PO Box 528
Millville, MA 01529

www.FreeCycleAmerica.org

Posted by: Paul Hurteau at September 2, 2005 10:25 AM

We changed the names of the main HudsonValley freecycling group and our companion bulletin board on August 18th, due to differences that we have with the way The Freecycle Network(TM) is being led. Both local groups remain totally intact, and our focus on making it really easy to keep perfectly good stuff out of landfills and build a more reuse/recycle-conscious community has continued without pause.

We appreciate everything we learned as a part of The Freecycle Network, but feel as though Deron Beal, who came up with the Freecycle idea, is taking the organization in the wrong direction.

I worked very closely with Deron for over a year, contending with the 2,000+ percent increase in membership and tons of problems that developed along the way. I feel very badly about everything I did to "enable" Deron to pursue his vision -- as opposed to the vision of the thousands of Freecycle moderators.

I resigned on August 1st from my work as Freecycle's Head Moderator and "Mother Hen," because of what I have since learned is called "Founder's Syndrome." (For the symptoms of founder's syndrome, visit:
http://www.gwsae.org/executiveupdate/2004/December/founderitis.htm.) I'll always have a soft spot for Deron, think he came up with a fabulous idea, was extremely generous in sharing it, and do not agree with those who think he is being driven by a profit motive.

Together with moderators from around the world, we are charting a different course to a better planet. The direction we're heading in is one where there are fewer organizational problems and more shared decision-making. Our primary goal will remain the same -- making it very easy and pleasant for people to find new homes for things they no longer want.

The Web site we are creating is called: http://www.RecycleCentral.org.

Posted by: Nancy Castleman at September 2, 2005 01:01 PM

Bob is probably right in saying most of us probably would not be here if not for freecycle but he is totally off base when he states that Free Share is about numbers.

First off there is a difference between Free Share (www.freeshare.savethisplanet.com) and Free Sharing (free-share.org), not much (in my opinion) but they are different groups, as are the other groups he refers too, but the one thing I believe we all have in common, (I could be wrong) is that we all support one another, we share links, we share information and we encourage free and independent ownership and operation of any and all groups listed with us, unlike freecycle corporation.

Free Share may be the original such group to spring from the Freecycle idea. Free Share is about gathering and sharing links/urls/listings to other free locally owned non-business groups by any name. Free Share does allow Freecycle groups to be listed but Mr. Beal has sent us and those group moderators e-mails demanding the link be removed. Freecycle/Mr.Deron Beal/Erzatsfriend are not interested in building or aiding communities, recycling or saving landfills, it is all about making a profit, so much so that he won't even allow Free Share to help promote his cause by sharing the link with the world.

Worldwide Free Share, located on Yahoo server, has had to rebuild several times because Freecycle had somehow convinced Yahoo to close them down, because it is Freecycle who is in "competition" and for every group that leaves them Freecycle reopens a competing group for the same area, unconcerned that one free group is enough for the area, their only concern is the numbers as Bob puts it.

Worldwide Free Share was so NOT competitive and more concerned with helping people locate free groups that when a Freecycle group listed themselves on Free Share they were welcomed with open arms, but were warned that Freecycle and Mr. Beal would be contact them and threaten them for doing so, and they did. Freecycle is so concerned with being the "one and only" they have even begun threatening totally unrelated on-line groups with names or concepts the least bit simular to their own. According to Freecycle you can not be a community owned group, in any area, and give items away for free because they "own the concept", according to Freecycle you can not even use the words "Free" and "recycle" together in your group name in any order or even the word "phreecycle" on a private discussion group. It is outrageous to say the least and the fact that Freecycle convinced Yahoo and others that they have some legal right to close down groups, e-mails, user accounts based on their invalid trademark claim is an injustice that can never be fully compensated.

Freecycle is concerned about numbers and member counts and boast them to the press and on their main website, not Free Share. It is Freecycle who tracks the collective tonage of the items freely given away by its members so they can use those numbers to solicit money from private parties, companies, corporations, and municipalities to line Mr. Beal's pockets.

I see letters from Freecycle supporters like Bob all the time who spew Deron Beals lies about "disgruntled" ex-freecyclers or try to minimize the number of people who are anti-freecycle and filing complaints and no matter how much they try to counter the truth with Beal's lies, the fact remains and the truth is coming out and eventually those hardcore freecycle supporters will see it and Free Share will welcome them because we do not hold a grudge because at one time we too believed in Freecycle, but no more.

Thank you Business week for joining the other few, but ever growing, media sources willing to report the real story, that which is not covered by Freecycle's Media Release packages.

Posted by: Widow at September 2, 2005 01:04 PM

Wow! Where do I start? When I first heard about Freecycle I was quite impressed. I thought what a giving and great thing to do for our environment and community outreach in such trying times. As I am in recovery due to some health issues, this was a way I could give back to my community from my home.

As time went on, my local group went from a non-freecycle group to a Freecycle group. Later I became an NGA, which stands for New Group Approver. From there, I went on to become a GOA, which stands for group outreach assistant. I was truly proud, and the comradery seemed great in the beginning.

I began to realize that things were not as they appeared. Some still with Freecycle will tell you there was no in-fighting. This is NOT true. If a GOA or an NGA did not agree with something they were gone! Then a horrid story would appear as to something they had done that justified this type of action. Nobody seemed to question them being gone, and if they did, they too were soon gone. Some quit because they could not take the deception anymore. The stories given the overall group where all moderators met were not the same as how I remembered things as a GOA and an NGA.

I began to realize that this was becoming very cultish in nature. It was what would WWDBD instead of WWJD . I saw people idolizing Deron, and if you attempted to say anything that was not of *like-think* or *like-jargon* I knew all too well I could also end up on the *list*.

I remained quiet all too long. I knew this would look good on my resume' when I finished college, so I tried very hard to ignore it. I listened to those I had come to know cry and feel so much anguish that they had spent all of their awakened hours volunteering their time; Many of these since the creation of Freecycle. Finally one night I spent the whole night talking someone out of committing suicide via the telephone because they had given all of themselves to Freecycle and thought they had found something to live for in spite of some disabilities.

Finally I could not sit on the fence anymore and withdrew from Freecycle. I believe Freecycle will go down in history as one of the largest and most sophisticated online cults since the beginning of the internet as we all know it.

Many I got into this movement and did my best to help them get out. One of the people I got into the movement took her group out of the network, only to be assaulted by the head of the back office for Freecycle. This was the first time she had known a lack of harmony being posted to her group.

One of the questions that keeps coming to my mind is this. In the beginning of Freecycle it *appeared* to be about starting our own groups for the purpose of keeping good stuff out of the landfills and goodwill towards others. If this in fact true, why is Freecycle having Yahoo shut groups down? About a month ago we were in a GOA meeting (chat) and they were bragging that a member of their staff had an in with Yahoo and 650 groups were shut down by Yahoo. People are even afraid to put *This group is no longer affiliated with Freecycle* on their groups for fear that Yahoo will shut them down. Something to do with trademark violations on a trademark which is not theirs to claim at this time. I also question how Yahoo would dream of doing this, even based on freedom of speech. Do we not have the right to state we are no longer affiliated with a specific organization?

At any rate I could tell you the realities of how ersatzfriend is being used, but will save this for a future post.

I feel as if a ton of bricks have been lifted since I left Freecycle and discontinued my volunteer service for them. It will be a long time before I will be able to understand how they could trashtalk so many dedicated volunteers who gave until they had nothing left to give.

Thanks for listening
Lorretta

Posted by: Lorretta at September 2, 2005 04:31 PM

I am the author of the long notice that others are using to explain the decision to leave the Freecycle network (although I could have sworn my original didn't have so many grammar errors!). I am also the founder and list owner of the original Freecycle list in the Dallas/Fort Worth region, now known as rEcycleDFW. It presently has approximately 14,000 members. At the time we left the Freecycle network, we were either the largest or certainly one of the top two or three in membership in their organization.

Many untruths have been posted here by Freecycle partisans. Surely some of them must know they are not true, as I find it difficult to understand how some could make these assertions while not bothering to verify their facts.

It is significant, though, that most of these are in posts done with complete pseudonyms.

In my case, the fact is that I was thoroughly involved during the early formative stages of the Freecycle movement. Because I am a writer, I was able to compose many policies and concept pieces that are still in wide use within the network.

As for the idea that I had done something "against the Freecycle policies"--that is absolute hogwash. Others who have been dismissed from their organization have committed such heinous sins as to call on their moderators' list for expanding the Board of Directors of The Freecycle Network Inc. beyond the founder, his wife, and a close family friend. For this, that individual was removed through a particularly graceless arrangement made behind her back.

The simple fact is that Mr. Beal seems to have a nearly pathological fear of letting go of any control. That his prior experience was as a paid staffer with a local recycling nonprofit--and by no means a manager even there, it seems--is immaterial. That many people with much more experience have been totally unable to help institute policies of open communication and transparency is regrettable. And that responses to very sincere people who have worked very hard have been so petty is inexcusable.

In the nearly three years since I started the DFW list, I have personally put in thousands of hours on this movement. Many interesting and worthwhile proposals have languished for too long--and our group of online communities in Texas and elsewhere are moving quickly to realize some of these opportunities for the betterment of our communities.

David Neeley

Posted by: David Neeley at September 2, 2005 04:50 PM

After the departure of our dear Nancy Castleman, I left the Freecycle movement. I too had been privy to many goings-on inside the Freecycle inner-circle and found that I could no longer dedicate any time to a man that I no longer respected nor believed in. I did not "burn out". I am not a troll. I am not jealous. I simply do not wish to be associated with the likes of Mr. Beal any longer.

Lynnie

Posted by: Lynnie at September 2, 2005 05:05 PM

The Following is a message I have sent to CNN, the AP and local news organizations in my area. This is just an idea but I am moving forward with it here in my area. I suggest at a time like this we put down our petty problems and stand up to the call.

If any of Deron's people are here, I would like to invite him to let his groups target a date so that maximum coverage can go out.

People are in need.

Now it the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country men.

Paul

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----------------------------
FreeCycle Earth and Associates will be holding a yard sale September 18th to raise funds for the Victims of Katrina. ALL donations are welcomed and all proceeds will be donated to the American Red Cross.

I suggest all others similar groups set this date as a target date in order to get some news media involved and get people involved.

The more people that hear about this effort the more people will get involved. Your assistance in making this information available would be greatly appreciated.

Paul Hurteau
70 Quaker Street
PO Box 528
Millville, MA 01529

A New Beginning,,,

www.FreeCycleEarth.org

Posted by: Paul Hurteau at September 2, 2005 06:05 PM

Hi,

My name is Deanna. I used to be the Group Outreach and Assistance team member for several states including Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Texas as well as the past New Group Approver for the state of Connecticut, the state modsquad list starter and co-owner mod for the state of Connecticut and an individual involved in other special projects for Freecycle including the training of new GOAs.

I am mentioned by a couple of people who have written in thus far.

I am the person who dared to bring up the issue of a board of directors. This email, that follows, is what brought about my immediate moderation on Freecycle discussion groups and lead to the ultimate planning of the Freecycle Hub getting rid of me quietly at high noon so as not to ruffle any more feathers inside the Freecycle organization.

I also want to make it clear, that before I brought up this issue, I had done my best to try to reform the several issues that have been crippling the organization, such as the lacking of communication, organization, direction, training, job descriptions, etc. etc.

=====
Hi all,

For those of you who may not know me, my name is
Deanna.

I have been a GOA (Group Outreach and Assistance) team
member for nearly a year, and have worked in Arizona,
Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico and Connecticut.
I have also worked to train a few GOAs and have
participated in many “top-level” discussions about how
GOAs can better assist moderators and members.

I have also been a New Group Approver (NGA) in the
state of Connecticut from the first day that NGAs
started, until about a month ago, when I turned it
over
to a wonderful woman in CT so that I could pick up the
GOA role in that state.

There have been some serious issues lately in the
Freecycle world, issues that cannot be attributed to
burnout or a lack of time. One of the issues that
should be investigated is the recent departure of over
a half a dozen hard working, well intentioned
Freecycle officials (I am using officials as a blanket
statement for those who have worked directly with
Deron in any capacity higher than group moderator so
as not to downplay or overplay their contributions.
All were important, I can assure you) including Nancy,
Lynnie, Judy, Val, Kelly, and Linden.

I have also submitted my two-weeks notice and have
been thinking about what I can do during these two
weeks to most help Freecycle. What I see as a key
problem has to do with the fact that we do not really
have a functioning board of directors, which should be
developing policy, seeing to its implementation, and
generally leading the organization.

The current board of directors consists of Deron, his
wife and someone I assume is a good friend of his.
It’s not unusual to start a nonprofit organization in
this way, but it is now over two years later, and I
believe it is time that the leadership came from us,
our pool of moderators. I am sure, that with the
thousands of moderators across the globe, that we have
many who are qualified to sit on the board.

Regardless of the current state of the organization or
the quality of work that has been done by Deron, it is
most important that there is a quality board of
diverse members so that this organization is moving in
a direction that we can all be pleased with. There is
a need for board committees to work on key issues such
as the new website as well as on projects that could
raise money for a core staff, such as the store.

We all work very hard in our roles in this
organization, and we deserve to lead in the decisions
that are made about how it is run, as what is done
today will affect the outcome of our future growth.

The following links lead to some information regarding
boards of directors for those who would find learning
more on this important subject helpful:

Free Complete Toolkit for Boards:
http://www.managementhelp.org/boards/boards.htm

Checklist to Evaluate a Nonprofit Board of Directors:
http://www.managementhelp.org/org___eval/uw_brd.htm

Nonprofit Board of Directors – An Overview
http://nonprofit.about.com/od/managinganonprofitorg/a/board_basics.htm

Where Can I Find Information on Nonprofit Boards
http://fdncenter.org/learn/faqs/html/nonprofit_boards.html

If anyone has any other information to add to this,
please share your knowledge with the rest of us! We
are a team, and if we work as one what we can
accomplish for the future of our Freecycle Network
will be totally amazing!

Let’s discuss what is needed on the board here and
perhaps those of you who are interested, could post
campaign letters on this group of why you want to be
on the board, and why you should be on the board.
Please include your qualifications so that we can all
understand what you bring to the table. If you have
someone else to nominate, I think that’s fine if you
explain why that person is qualified.

Are you ready?

I am ready to make the first nomination, although I am
not sure if she will accept, she is certainly
qualified to be on the board, as she is the person who
has worked most closely with Deron at the top of the
organizational ladder for over a year. This woman has
the most extensive knowledge of the organization and
its members as well as the passion of what the
Freecycle Network stands for. She also has a
background in nonprofit organizations and fund
raising.

I would like to nominate Nancy Castleman. As a
nominee, I would like to ask that she be invited to
rejoin this modsquad and an invitation sent to each of
the current members of the board of directors so that
they are able to participate in this discussion... or
if this discussion would cause distraction or asked to
be ended on this group we can continue it on a Yahoo
group set up specifically for this purpose and called
something like FreecycleBOD.

Sincerely,
Deanna
=====

Since our discussions were not welcome on the modsquad I did start a group entitled FreecycleBOD in Yahoo groups, where I invited a slew of mods, NGAs, GOAs, Deron and the current board members.

Contrary to what has been stated about the invitations to the group, I did not hack, steal or otherwise illegally obtain mod email addresses for invitations. I sent the invitations to all those who asked for one, all those that I personally knew as well as to all those who others asked me to invite. I received lists and lists of people to invite from several mods across the globe and because of this I did end up inviting some people more than once, for which I apologized. I invited somewhere around 2,000 people and ended up with a group of about 600 or so.

The discussions on this group were very much targeted at reforming the current Freecycle organization in a way that would be beneficial to everyone, including Deron. (I have several hundred email from that group saved, and there are people who have stated that they have all of the digests from the life of the group, if there are any questions regarding the type of discussions in the group.)

Deron was not happy with the group that I set up and started making accusations of me, that I mostly chose (or tried ) to ignore.

I was still an active member in GOA at this time, although moderated for all but a couple of hours until I said something else that was not “appropriate.” I went to the weekly GOA chat on Yahoo Messenger, as usual, and it was just a mess. GOA members requested to discuss the board of directors and what was going on and were told no, and then were hit with a flurry of information for the next hour and then told that they would be seen next week, and see ya later!

Since I had been booted out of the chat a couple of times due to a thunder storm in my area that affected the phone lines, I downloaded the chat file from GOA soon after it was posted to see what I had missed. I was shocked, shaken, awed, shocked, in a state of disbelief, shocked (and did I mention shocked?!?!) at what I was reading. Intermingled with the social period, pre-chat was the hub chat where Deron and others were delightfully planning on quietly removing me from everything to do with Freecycle at high noon. It was also mentioned that all those who were openly a part of the FreecycleBOD group were not team players and that they were too far gone to be part of Freecycle.

I immediately changed the name of FreecycleBOD to NamelessBOD to keep Yahoo from deleting it for Deron, I separated the social chat from the private chat and X’d out the names of others not really involved for privacy reasons, sent the chat out to the NamelessBOD group, which was then deleted by Stephanie (the Hub coordinator and a paid member of the Freecycle staff), thennnn… I demoted EF from my local group and banned him, at which time I was told to leave immediately and either turn over my group or it would be replaced by the Imod team (a team of moderators who replace Freecycle groups for a variety of reasons).

Since this time everything from the hub members were a part of gallows humor because they were uneasy about the situation so they laughed about it to take the stress off to Deanna only went to the chat with a plan to publish it to Deanna removed lines of the chat to make it look worse than it really was, has been thrown out there.

That chat was bad enough speaking for itself and did not need my help or “improvement ideas,” and had I planned on making a private chat public that I had no idea was going on I may have been better providing my skills to Sylvia Brown or Jonathan Edwards rather than the Freecycle Network.

I had nothing to gain by putting myself in a position to be thrown out on my butt after over a year of dedicated service to the Freecycle Network. I am a single disabled mom who wanted to help my community and ended up being pulled further and further into the Freecycle Network, effectively giving up all of my “well” free time and in fact completed most of my “work” from bed.

I did not want or need the stress of the drama surrounding the political nature and financial obligations of the Freecycle Network.

It is not what I or others signed up for.

At this time I continue to answer hundreds of questions that have been asked of me from individuals all over the globe about past events and recent statements made about me on the new private OIDG group (fondly known by some as Deron‘s Oh I Did Good group - which is how I remembered the correct lettering of it) by Deron, Emily and perhaps a couple of others; but am mostly enjoying my local groups and members. I am working on a grass roots website for my home state, http://freedomcycle.org It is really a rough draft right now. The mods and members have lots of ideas and I am adding to it little by little as my time and health allow.

I have also joined up with Nancy Castleman, Linden, Lynnie, Lorretta, David and others (I do not want to name anyone who may not want their name out there, but am thinking of you all as the great team of strong and thoughtful individuals that you are!) all across the globe in setting up http://recyclecentral.org as a listing place, as well as a moderator support group.

At this time there is an idea out there for us to get together and draw up a vision statement once a year, so that the current groups involved will always feel a part of what we are doing, which I think is a good idea. We are not planning to TM anything and since we have no reason to bring in money we have no need to file any 5013c papers or anything similar.

Basically we are just people online coming together to discuss thoughts and ideas that will help each other in our respective communities.

Most importantly of all, people are starting to love what they are doing again.

Posted by: Deanna at September 2, 2005 10:37 PM

I try to stay out of group politics, but I guess I needed to know some of this - and it explains things. I joined the group that creates the trademarked logos for Freecycle groups. I like creating graphics.

One group that had a request in our database replied rather tersely when contacted, and the designer was hurt and confused.

Also know why I was told in ALL CAPS not to solicit any projects from groups that aren't "TM compliant".

I don't regret the time I've put it. It's been good therapy since my mom's recent death, but I guess I'll need to investigate further and evaluate if I'm giving my time wisely.

Thanks to all of you who took the time to post this info.

God bless us, every one.

Posted by: franceska at September 4, 2005 07:04 AM

The above message of someone who "joined the team" is the sort of part of the problem. Please understand I am not blaming the poster, nor do I think the graphics team is neccessarily bad. It is just a sign of the pattern; as the line in The Postman goes something like: "they're joining up without bothering to ask who they're replacing or why."

People buy the party line and even become a defender of the "testy" quips and responses of Deron Beal which are commonplace and almost never answer any of the quite direct questions which are asked.

Posted by: Anonymous FC Mod at September 5, 2005 01:45 AM

Many volunteers, including those who worked the most closely with Deron Beal for the longest time, have left Freecycle because they were asked to participate in, observed, or were the target of unethical behavior instigated by Beal.

Anyone who disagrees with Beal has no place in the organization.

It is telling that Mr. Beal has refused to participate in any discussion forum but those that he controls, even when he's desperately trying to spin this situation to his advantage.

Posted by: Cynthia Armistead at September 5, 2005 02:08 PM

Of late, the comments about the dissenters, aka those who have left due to what they saw, found out, were asked to participate in, or saw done to others, I've heard are now being referred to as bad apples by a Head Mod of the Mod Squad.

The replacements for those who were the GOAs, NGAs, and IMODs, will be a new crop, who hopefully will not be a new target or bad apple, when they too begin to question what they see.

But I've seen a pattern, that appears to be repeating itself.

Those of us who have left, are still very involved in our local communities, and our groups. As that's what this was all to really be about. But somewhere along the line, the grassroots begin to be farther and farther away, as it became more and more controlled and corporate in nature.

That was not the gig I signed up for, and the attempts to trademark a grassroots group, made it so very un grassroots in nature that it's not even in the same ball park.

Release the word Freecycle back to the public domain where it was promised when earlier screenshots of Freecycle.org invited you, to start your own network for your city. There was no mention of being controlled by a larger one.

Posted by: Charlotte Hess, Melbourne, Florida at September 6, 2005 04:35 AM

I have read and re-read what has been said. I have discussed the things I read. For the most part, I am seeing a bunch of adults act like Jr. High cliques. What Mr. Beal did to some of the top people was atrocious no doubt. Some I have had help me, some are now claiming the way they treated me and others was due to Mr. Beal. We all say BS to that !

Mr. Beal did not tell you how to word, phrase, say or otherwise write what you wrote. He merely said this is what needs to be done. How you did it was all your own doing and you should own it !

Aside from that, your leaving the Freecycle Network is of no concern to us. However, the manner in which Mr. Beal treated you is.

Mr. Beal is the person that should be owning his actions and it's just too bad the Freecycle Network is paying the price. Mr. Beal is the person that should be confronted and the entity that should be destroyed, not the Freecycle Network.

Any of the other groups are trying to ride the wave, so to speak, the ones saying, "our organization is nothing like that, our organization would never do that, our organization, yada yada yada." What a load of smelly stuff !

Each person that feels they were treated unjustly should say their piece and MOVE ON by pouring all their newly found free time (they claim to have given tons of hours to Mr. Beal) into their individual communities instead of wasting their time hashing Freecycle over and over again.

All of the names out there are going to "crash the polls." All of the other organizations are going to try and get their name to the top of the heap. If you deny it, well, you know what you are. Tim, Paul and the others out there, turn your energies to the hurricane victims or your own sites and leave the rest behind. You fail to see this is not making you look any better than those you badmouth.

The only ones with a need to say anything have said it, and said it, and said it again. All right already, he gone and done you wrong ! Are you going to continue to wallow in it or get on with it? You all seem like fairly intelligent people, so the choice shouldn't be all that hard to make.

Jessie

Posted by: Jessie at September 6, 2005 10:18 PM

I find it so very odd that the Trademark and the use of the word Freecycle is so very important, that Yahoo will do as Freecycle asks, in particular Emily of the Trademark Team. Emily and I worked together when I was Database Admin and she was beginning the TM team. The first Cease and Desists were drafted by me, and I regret very deeply my involvement in that.

After I came up for air, removed the veil so to speak; I realized that by the Freecycle Network asking Yahoo to have the groups deleted they considered a 'rogue' was inherently against what we ourselves promoted.

(A rogue could mean a group which had removed themselves from the network and still used the name, or the logo or some combination thereof - Or a group that opened without Freecycle approval and sanction.)

We effected through our influence with Yahoo the mass deletion of hundreds of Yahoo groups. These were groups who were recycling and reusing items within their communities. If the Freecycle Networks' main claim to fame is to encourage this, why would it be a reason to celebrate when we caused all of these members to be cast adrift, as their groups were deleted out from under them.

Is it so very important to Freecycle to 'protect' their name, and that shiny elusive trademark, that this is done? I just do not understand how this can be a good thing. Isn't imitation the most sincere form of flattery?

Shouldn't Freecycle be promoting this concept rather than seeking to destroy it? Something does not ring true here. The fear that someone, some bad person will use the name and make a buck, seems at best a unproven worry for Deron.

With that, I share a post to the New Group Approvers own Yahoo group of which I was a member where celebration abounds as Yahoo did our bidding. And I took no oath of confidentiality there so don't consider it a breach. I do consider it time for some of us to do the right thing, and be upfront on what we know to be the truth.

I apologize for my involvement in this and wish I had seen it earlier, but my eyes were clouded and I thought I was protecting Freecycle. I was wrong.

An early email to me from Deron on January 12, 2005. After the very first set of groups were deleted: about 89 on the first swoop by Yahoo.

[quote]
"oh mahgod this is too good. This and the deleting of rogue groups in one nite. Too much goodness. must celebrate....
deron "
[end quote]

From NGA group: New Group Approvers of Freecycle

[quote]
"I just wanted to drop a note...
652 groups were recently removed by Yahoo for
copyright infringement. These are mostly groups that were originally rejected by the approver or went rogue. Dean and the database team worked VERY hard on this- it was a lot of work, and it's not over yet.

HUGE KUDOS to Dean, Dorothy, Judy, and Loretta for
their tremendous efforts (and special thanks to Judy for her heroic and time-consuming continued work on this). Thanks to Judy's work and the C&D letters, this number was narrowed down from more than 3,000 entries in the database!

This is a huge accomplishment and will certainly help our cause in many ways (including demonstrating our responsibility to the patent & trademark office).

Three cheers!!

~emily

[end quote]

Posted by: Charlotte Hess at September 7, 2005 01:41 AM

I thought this comment by Deb Sawyer was very interesting: Deb is the Head Mod of the Moderators group on what is commonly known as the Mod Squad.

The Freecycle Network to my knowledge does not request that Yahoo delete groups. Group that have been rejected as official groups (or are NOT listed on Freecycle.org which may includes groups that never applied for approval to use the name) are sent a series of letters asking them to remove the Freecycle Trademark, name and copyrighted materials. Once they fail to do so, they are at some point reported to Yahoo for trademark/copyright infringement. Yahoo may
request that the materials are removed or they may
take other actions including deleting the groups from their servers. The Freecycle Network has no control over the actions that Yahoo takes.

Deb
Freecycle Modsquad Coordinator

Posted by: anonymousconcernedmod at September 7, 2005 01:55 AM

While I'm spending most of my time moving on, every now and then, an assortment of really egregious things come up, and I feel as though I just have to speak up. This is one of those times.

EF and that silly poll are beside the point, imho. Of course group owners should be free to do what they like! More to the point:
* There is still no board of directors that represents mods worldwide.
* There is no free speech.
* Folks who have bravely spoken out and/or shared an inkling of the secret goings-on are portrayed as villains and are blacklisted. While many of us feel terrible about what we did in the name of Freecycle, we do not deserve to be called names. But if you must call us something, we are whistle blowers, as Char recently pointed out. Over time, more and more mods will be humming to our tune.
* The MS, which was supposed to make all policy decisions, has still has never voted on many key issues. For example, should there even be a non-profit organization? If so, what should its priorities be? Staff? Budget? What should the rules be for Freecycle groups? Who decided that full moderation is a no-no? Is the trademark worth pursuing? And then there's the Web site ... .
* TFN is moving ahead on a Web $ite that mod$ did not vote for and may not even want. Who know$? Maybe folk$ would rather cut a deal with Yahoo, and $ee tho$e buck$ go to Habitat for Humanity.
* Speaking of Yahoo, why does Freecycle's Start a Group still instruct folks to set up Yahoo group fairly early in the process? Many of them will be told to take them down and will receive the aforementioned C&D letters. This was supposed to be changed almost a year ago! Why Yahoo tolerates it is beyond me.
* Key decisions continue to be made in secret by Deron alone or by Deron and his oligarchy.

As I said, I am spending most of my energies moving ahead -- both with the group I have here in New York's Hudson Valley and with many other formerly-known-as-Freecycle-mods. Together, we are building a new umbrella organization -- http://www.RecycleCentral.org -- which I hope will eventually make it easy for groups to do much more than freecycle.

Our goal is to create a truly participatory democracy via our mod group -- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RecycleCentral/ -- where all the members of the group will have an equal say in all the key decisions. It won't be easy, but we are working on it! It's hard to shed the ways we all behaved in the past. We are learning to give each other the benefit of the doubt.

Right now on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RecycleCentral/, we are deciding whether or not to allow mods from Freecycle groups to join. Compare our approach to the poll on the MS for a good chuckle:

"In the spirit of keeping this group as democratic as possible, let's vote on issues as they come up. Here's one: If a group is still a part of The Freecycle Network(TM) and also wants to be listed on http://www.RecycleCentral.org and to give its owners and moderators access to this Yahoo group, should we allow that? None of us know what the repercussions will be for the group owners and moderators from TFN, so it would have to be "enter at your own risk" if we do allow Freecycle groups to join. I think the leader of at least one Freecycle group has already joined us, fyi. My best to y'all! Nancy

*Yes, we should allow Freecycle groups to join.
*No, we shouldn't allow Freecycle groups to join."

I've been urging all folks concerned about FC who haven't been to this BusinessWeek site, or haven't been here lately, to check out Rob Hof's story -- "What's Up (or Down) at Freecycle?" -- and the responses to it. BusinessWeek is quite an interesting publication, and I am glad that so many folks who might not otherwise, are now checking it out. (Full disclosure: BusinessWeek was one of the first publications to feature our work on mortgage pre-payment, and its editors were very helpful to Marc and me ... some 20+ years ago ... when a lot of you were still in grade school. LOL!)

While I feel so much better to be moving on and working on something that I feel is genuine, my hat's off to the mods trying so hard to save TFN, many of whom are close friends! I continue to wish them the best of luck -- they need it!

Nancy

Posted by: Nancy Castleman at September 7, 2005 01:33 PM

I was involved with TFN from March of 2004 until August 17, 2005. I was invited in late July of 2005 to join the GOA as the GOA for North Carolina. I lasted about 2 weeks. I asked too many questions. I left the GOA without having done one single GOA activity other than sit in on a couple of rather famous GOA "chats". Maybe it was because I had spent nearly 30 years in the management ranks of Fortune 500 companies (the last one a pharmaceutical, some of the trickiest players around) that I could pretty quickly sense the perfidy and lack of ethics of Deron and Co. I am the one who published the infamous "secret chat" to the ModSquad. Nancy called me "Paul Revere" - actually it felt closer to Martin Luther nailing the 95 theses to the church door. I knew that I would be instantly branded heretic and ousted by the Powerful One.

I don't regret a bit of it. I am back to doing what I wanted to do in the first place - hook people up with other people's used stuff that they can use rather than trash. Pretty simple. Too darn bad Mr. Beal needed to find a way to shore up his ego and quit his day job. It could have stayed simple all around.

If you need to know more you can contact me at admin@recyclecentral.org which is on a private non-Yahoo server and thus out of the span of control of Mr. Beal. I really hate it when I get deleted LOL!

Keep on recycling and freecycling too for that matter.

Linden Gibson, Raleigh North Carolina

(who lives by the motto of the late Shirley Chisholm - "Unbought and Unbossed")

Posted by: Linden R Gibson at September 7, 2005 11:06 PM

The Freecycle Network (TM) asks simple things. Keep the groups friendly and spam free. Keep the posts FREE, Legal, and Appropriate.
Members should be considerate and follow these simple rules. So should the moderators.
So many people decided that "they" should be the one to make decisions about how things happen. So many people, so many ideas. There HAS to be some form of control over it all. Why not make sure that "official" groups are doing what they are intended to do? Why not assure members that when they join a Freecycle group, that they will get properly formatted, reasonable requests for used items, and a place to give away theirs?
WHY not ask that each group that is approved by Freecycle have the stamp that says this is a spam free, no begging, no abuse area?
I am proud that the group I moderate has no conflict or spam on it. I am proud that I can volunteer in my community, and help people out.
All these whiners need to stop bashing Freecycle, and do what they will.
So 1% of the mods left. Because of a few who did not like the fact that their ideas were not implemented. They stomped their feet and held their breath, and when they did not get their way, they took their members (without asking them) and left. I have news for you, Freecycle is just fine. Stop your feeble attempts at destroying it, and do your thing.

Posted by: Freecycle Fan at September 8, 2005 05:18 PM

Well, well, well.

So the underbelly of former Freecycle folks have won! Congratulations!

It appears the ever-qualified and man who has no journalistic integrity - Mr. Hof has made the following statement:

Quote from Hof's email:
"Thanks. I'll be in touch before too long on Freecycle. Appreciate
your thoughts. And no, Freecycle won't be on the list (at least in
the magazine; we can't remove choice from the online survey,
unfortunately). Too much weirdness for us to recommend it as a Best."

There you have it! People speak with their votes and BusinessWeek still decides what's 'best' for everyone in the end.

Say, doesn't that sound very reminiscent of what all these yoyo's here are crying about being under Mr. Beal's thumb at Freecycle?

No, couldn't be. Not BusinessWeek, one of the most respected publications in the industry. And not Mr. Hof, who wouldn't jump on a hot story and then rig the results because his professional integrity is on the line!

I fully expect this NOT to be published here as a response and be censored by BW. Sad, simply because it is apparent now that Mr. Hof and BW run just like they claim Freecycle does, but hey look at the 100's of posts from those who couldn't get a grip if we gave them one. All of them use this as their forum, yet they're off making claims that this is theirs and not Freecycle's forum.

Major Double standards all around.

Mr. Hof and BusinessWeek. If you're going to trash the results of your Poll and taint this article in this fashion, its time to remove a couple of other recent additions to that list as well. At least if you want to have any shred of respect from your readers.

Oh yes, amybe it should now be mentioned that a competitive publication group to BW has taken an interest in this matter because of the large black eye that will result from the censorship and dishonesty that now is apparent?

Can't wait for that piece to show up once this edition hits the streets!

Nice job freedomcyclers, you've managed to try to kill a good thing in both the recycling industry and now the media as well. Pat yourselves on the back as you always do!

Posted by: Oh ya thats appropriate at September 8, 2005 06:49 PM

Note to Fan: The folks who did leave, were the folks who built TFN. They aren't disgruntled nut cases ... collectively, I'd bet they put thousands of hours into the national (global) effort. Mr. Beal, could not have accomplished anything without these people and their talents. Betrayed, stripped of their dignity and devalued for their hard work ... they, like you, with nothing to gain but satisfaction of connecting folks, forwarding the "movement," simply wanted the respect of being told the truth. Mr. Beal seems not to have really gotten it ... that this movement is NOT him, cannot be owned, and more ... that it is larger than him ... larger than any one person. You cannot be so naive to think that Freecycle was the first ... nor is it the last ... group of folks who are concerned about our planet. Most of us wish him well. The smart ones are taking the movement back where it belongs ..... to the people.

Linda

Posted by: Linda at September 8, 2005 10:19 PM

To the person identifying himself/herself as "Oh ya thats appropriate":
By not paying attention, you've jumped to conclusions and wrongly impugned my and my magazine's integrity. There are two distinct lists we're doing here for our Best of the Web package: One is an online survey, for which we are posting results as they come in. We're not altering those results in any way, even though it's apparent that some sites are encouraging their users to vote, rather than letting it happen organically. Those results are what they are: a tally (if an unscientific one) on what sites people are voting for. Plus, we got many interesting suggestions from this survey that we hadn't thought of. All goodness.

The other list is a shorter one of top editor's picks that will appear in the magazine. By their nature, they're going to be more subjective. These judgment calls are what our readers expect and deserve.

Two different lists, each with value of their own. No rigged results here. OK?

Frankly, with the sort of back-and-forth I (and many other folks, judging from the many comments) have seen among Freecycle fans and foes, it's pretty clear something's awry. Some of this infighting is intrinsic to any community, as I know from writing about eBay. But how on earth can we recommend a service in which so many the participants seem to be at each other's throats?

BTW, folks who read your comment might put a little more stock in it if you didn't hide behind a fake name.

Posted by: Rob Hof at September 9, 2005 12:43 AM

Hi Rob,
First I wanted to thank you for including FreeSharing.org in the poll. It is really an honor even to be listed as an option.
The reason I'm sending you this note is I have just seen what may be 'vote fraud' in the poll which FreeSharing.org is entered.
I have been watching the poll with some interest, and refreshing the results page rather frequently to see how the site is doing.
I just saw an aproximately 100 vote increase in the tally for FreeSharing.org in the span of about 20 minutes, which is a bit more than what a statistical anomaly could justify.
As the webmaster for FreeSharing.org I would much rather have an honest 11% show in the results than a possibly fraudulent 30% due to the actions of someone running a script.
It is apparent that both Freesharing supporters and the folks at FreeCycle have been spreading the word about the poll and encouraging folks to vote, and I see no problem with that, but running a script to inflate the numbers is defeating the purpose.
I would humbly suggest that you check your logs for between 10:45am EDT and 11:15am today, and if the votes seem irregular, please void them and bring FreeSharing.org back down to the ~11% it was at before this anomaly.

Best Regards,
Eric Burke
webmaster - FreeSharing.org

Posted by: Eric Burke at September 9, 2005 11:36 AM

Mr. Hof,

First let's address this 'Best Of' situation.

Below is the exact quote from the ending of
the survey section at BW, stating that the
results will help BW create a Best Of package.
It makes no mention and more eludes to the
fact all these voting results from the polls
will be a weighted factor in what's provided
as BW's 'Best of the Web'. There is no
distinct difference stated on these supposed
'two lists' as you mention. So I'm paying
attention quite closely to that fact.

"Most of all, we hope you'll suggest your own favorite sites and categories. And as you think of more, you can keep coming back to offer suggestions for each survey in the series until mid-September, when the results will be used to help us write a Best of the Web package, with stories both online and in the print magazine."

Next let's examine the fact that a majority of
these comments published are from those who
actively oppose Freecycle and have made a career
of finding new ways to trash the joint and leave
nothing behind.

If you, as they're claiming, are reading those
posts in that group then you should be seeing
their continual bashing comments and requests
that people take actions like 'hacking into
freecycle', etc. that appear there.

Freecycle has some issues, but its running just
fine without this band of misfits beyond the
fact their quest to kill what they've left
behind requires them to continually con more
people into their way of seeing things. As
someone mentioned here, about 1-2% of them left
Freecycle and 'who cares'. But they continually
find themselves offended by something and have
the need to vent their vengance in their actions.

You mention eBay and its problems, as you have
written about it over quite some time. But with
those same problems there, and the infighting
and the rest of it being similar to Freecycles
current situation, I don't see any hesitation
for BW not mentioning eBay in any breath its
deemed possible to do so. That's another double
standard right there.

So if you're going to take the position on behalf
of BW to exclude Freecycle from any Best Of's
done in the near future, since the anti-freecycle
activity comes from such sources as FreeSharing
one would certainly hope they're going to be
excluded as well. In fact with the entirely
incorrect claim of 'ballot stuffing', the whole
poll is just about worthless and invalid, no?

The Freecycle Community is just fine, with some
issues to resolve and progress has been made
even just today. The Anti-Freecycle Community
is alive and well, set on destroying Freecycle
at any costs and by almost any means. There's
your story and since its got such lovely negative
themes that's why we're reading all about this
and being entertained with the slew of comments
behind it. If it was just routine problems
within Freecycle, wouldn't even make the birdcage
pages. But since theres blood to be had, here
it is in living color.

Mr. Hof says - "But how on earth can we (BW)
recommend a service in which so many the
participants seem to be at each other's
throats?"

This one is very simple. You're recommending
a functional service that serves its members and
not those who run it for them. They are very
important to the equation, but not why it all
has grown to the point it is.

Members are the 'participants', not all these
posts from more of the management level that
have left because they couldn't get it all their
way and stomped off. Some had valid reasons for
leaving, but they have been lost in the mire of
all the vindictive actions they take and call
for. So they're not 'participants' and so
your statement here is way off base.

Mr. Hof says one last thing - "BTW, folks who
read your comment might put a little more stock
in it if you didn't hide behind a fake name."

I doubt it, most of the anti-movement hide behind
fake names and happily publish false information
in order to convince those who remain with
Freecycle that its world has come to an end and
its time to leave as quickly as possible. Many
of them have shown their true selves and have
openly admitted to what they've done since they
left. But still that goes unreported and just
the 'Freecycle Bad' image is what's portrayed
because that makes the headlines.

I am readily available, the posting here requires
an e-mail address and I haven't seen a single
thing from you prior to releasing my previous
point. Instead, it's as gleefully slammed up
here with a choice response whitewashing the
situation as those in Freedomcycle who happily
posted your e-mail about excluding Freecycle and
now happily post only your response here as
'take that' and call me a coward, etc. That
speaks volumes on credibility alone.

This blog and subsequent comments are ten times
the volume of any others currently shown. And
a majority of the comments is from the supposed
opposition who quite frankly left the Freecycle
system and no longer have a say in its future,
be that a new beginning without them or its
eventual self-destruction.

Those of us with Freecycle don't see anything
close to self-destruction and are working just
as hard as those who have left to continue the
changes and progress that needs to be made to
provide the best service to our members, the
people. Some of the same ones who read BW and
may be its subscribers as well.

BW does not exist without its readers, Freecycle
does not exist without its members. It simply
comes down to that.

Posted by: Oh ya thats appropriate at September 9, 2005 08:11 PM

Linda,
You said "You cannot be so naive to think that Freecycle was the first ... nor is it the last ... group of folks who are concerned about our planet."

I said nothing of the sort. Freecycle is not trying to destroy any other recycling group. Only the folks at "Freedomcycle" are. What about the posts that are being sent in from a former GOA, copied from confidential discussions on that group? What about the effort to ask Mr. Hof to REMOVE Freecycle from the poll?
The people who left have done nothing but whine about Freecycle...they talk about it all day long, bashing it and laughing (he he). Sound familiar? I have no respect for anyone who is or was on that group.
Sharing confidential information is wrong.
Why can't you all just do your thing and since you left Freecycle...LEAVE FREECYCLE ALONE?
You know, move on with your life?
Some of us are willing to work WITH the system to make things better. Instead of taking our groups and jumping ship. It is still good.
What about the vote that ended today, ersatzfriend is no longer required on any group. How many left because it was? Their loss. Before you say it was put to a vote because of the people who left... wrong. It would have been put to a vote, regardless. Due to the obvious disagreement there was with the policy.
I will keep EF on my group, as I have nothing to hide, and no reason to be afraid.
As I said, please move on. I wish you all the best.

Posted by: Freecycle Fan at September 9, 2005 11:26 PM

Dear Fan and the other anonymous guy: Since you're both obviously members of the Freedomcycle group ... since you've both accessed and spread posts from that group ... you MUST have SOME interest in what all those folks have to say. Otherwise, you wouldn't be there. Speaking of moving on ... why don't YOU move on. You both must have seen, had you read the preface to this blog, that BW and Mr. Hof had concerns about what they'd been hearing re TFN well before they heard from anyone posting here. WELL before.

A couple more points .... you say you're willing to work WITH the system. Has it occurred to you, that the TFN system isn't the only system? That TFN isn't the ONLY way to put forth this movement? That the way TFN's "system" is being run, it actually makes sense to go out on one's own to protect one's group? I guess that's what gets me, and perhaps, tho I can't speak for others, what got them .... the top insiders who actually built TFN .... that TFN was very happy to use their talents and creativity and time ... and then plotted their demise rather unceremoniously and with absolutely no class ... simply because they dared ask 'when will we see a board of directors?' can we see the articles of incorporation and bylaws for the organization to which we devote our lives? Since we built TFN while you were working at another job, can we have a little input into how it works?'

Yup, there are those at Freedomcycle who are kinda 'out there.' The top leaders who left, though, if you'll read carefully, are constantly trying to redirect the focus from anger and vengeance ... to constructive and passionate moving on ... as you put it. Those folks, as I, do wish TFN well. Are grateful for the experience, have been deeply impacted by the opportunities to be so actively involved in their communities. And simply wish to create an alternate "system."

Apparently neither one of you has read all the posts there ... or here for that matter ... many of which have not been posted with bitterness, but as an explanation of their own experience. Again, there are the ones who can't seem to let go. I'm the person who suggested removing FC from the BW survey. You'll have to search long and hard and fruitlessly for any post I've made any where that belittles TFN. UNTIL the other morning, when I read that Delaware had prohibited any posts about aid for Katrina victims. That even ONE group in TFN prohibited those posts, seemed to me, utterly, completely, ridiculous and callous. Considering what other orgs are doing, Craigslist for example .... TFN, having incredible power to actually bring thousands and thousands of resources to help .. not only doesn't step up to the plate, but then quashes their own members' desire to help. Had we not left TFN by then ... we would have done so after that.

One more thought ... if you don't even have the courage to say who you are ... why should anyone take what you have to say thoughtfully? ALL of the former leaders of TFN have revealed themselves. You're both hiding here, and on Freedomcycle. Arguing for arguing's sake isn't well received .... here, or over there. To know this, you would have to spend time doing some actual reading, rather than simply picking up snippets here and there. I promised myself last night that I didn't have anything else to contribute here, but since you addressed me personally ... how about we meet up over at Freedomcycle? I'll be there, and easily recognizable .... guess I'm challenging you both to be a man (or woman). Or are you afraid that if it's known that you're participating at Freedomcycle, that there might be repercussions from TFN for you? Now that, I might understand.
Linda ... known to both of you as Recycler.

Posted by: Linda at September 10, 2005 12:47 AM

Hmmm .. it just occurred to me. Maybe ALL the anonymouses who refuse to reveal themselves are actually Deron Beal himself! On both sides of the the story! Here and over at Freedomcycle. Posts meant to inflame passions, bring out the worst of people's emotions. In fact, I'm presuming at this time that they ARE Deron Beal himself, using pseudonyms.

The process going on in this forum, and over at Freedomcycle .. is called the grieving process. As in a divorce, each side alleging broken promises, it's all your fault;, no, it's all YOUR fault. Or when a parent dies and there are unresolved issues. Recrimination after recrimination. Everyone grieves in a different fashion in any case. There's a need to vent, or to defend, or to have regrets. Emotions run high. As in any loss, death of an ideal, broken promises, whatever ... folks grieve at their own pace.

The facts are ... there IS a lot of upheaval at Freecycle ... and there ARE more groups every day dropping away to become independent; looking for a more flexible way to keep the movement going in their own communities. Ways to connect from their communities to the world at large ... ways that Freecycle as it stands now, does not permit them to do via The Freecycle Network. Beal did promise, after all, that groups would be free to conform to their own communities. As it stands, you conform to Beal's rules, NOT decided by his volunteers, not TNF's rules, but the three-person (family) board of directors' rules ... or get out. Well, quite a lot of us have gotten out.

If you are NOT Deron Beal posting here or there ... reveal yourselves. Because as it stands, one must presume that you are Mr. Beal himself. :-) You cannot question Mr. Hof's integrity if you have none yourself.

Linda

Posted by: Linda at September 10,